Archived comment by Ellie:
Does anyone else have the um girl???
Example:
Puts her hand up. "Um, I don't really know if this is right but....*pause*....oh I don't know how to say it...*pause*...um nevermind...I don't know"

I swear she was in my english class last year.

Archived comment by Arlene:
As the saying goes, 'never blame on conspiracy what might be attributable to stupidity'

Archived comment by Saint:
Apparently not. Although, I never checked to see what the prerequisites for Vicky Lit were, and I think Dr. Pete assumed I had already taken British Lit or tested out of it...first hint of trouble we had was when the class didn't show up on my report when they mailed out grades. So, maybe if I had gotten his permission, signed and in triplicate, in advance.... But that doesn't make much sense (not that witholding credit for a class I aced does make sense).

Come to think of it, maybe they just had some kind of computer error, and blamed the whole thing on the prerequisite rule to make it my fault instead of theirs.

Archived comment by Arlene:
You mean they don't have the caveat: "or with Instructor's permission"? How silly of them. At least you had a good prof.

Archived comment by Saint:
It was a rant, but that's okay. I felt the same way. Luckily, Dr. Pete arranged for me to get the credit for the Vicky Lit...after I had completed British Lit, of course. What can I say, they were dead serious about their prerequisite classes.

Archived comment by Arlene:
Now that doesn't make sense. I can kinda sorta see the reasoning behind the 'if you are in the text you can't take the class' & with a stretch I can even comprehend the 'you've already had math A & B in high school, therefore you must not take any math lower than C in college' but with English Lit? I don't understand. Admittedly, you'll miss some of the concepts that were introduced in the earlier class but either a good teacher will review those or you won't need them. With English Lit you'll just miss some references you won't miss basic concepts like square roots in math. If you've ever taken a Lit course you have the basic concepts. Bleah. sorry for you.

Was that a rant? If so, my apologies.

Archived comment by Saint:
Yeah, I can understand that lesser-of-two-dull-classes reasoning. And really, who knows what the colleges are thinking when they make up the rules. I backed out of a Children's Lit class I hated, and picked up a Victorian Lit class from a prof I loved. Since I hadn't taken British Lit yet, I got no credit for the Vicky Lit class.

Archived comment by Arlene:
I don't know how often it happens, I think it's to prevent someone taking such an easy A course. Because if they contributed to the text then obviously they are overqualified for the class. It's related to the rule that prevented another friend of mine from taking any math class lower than calculus. College is supposed to challenge us, right?

For my friend, it was a coincidence & he reeeeeallly didn't want to take organic chem which was his alternative.

Archived comment by Paul:
Ben-

Thanks for taking the time to write that. I enjoy getting another viewpoint on such things, and it very seldom happens that I find anyone willing to express one. Very nicely analyzed.

But I still think that Marx was wrong. (grin)

Archived comment by Saint:
Arlene--does that really happen so often they had a pre-existing rule about it, or did they make up the rule just for your friend? I mean, really, how often does it happen that a contributor to a textbook needs to take a class requiring that textbook?

Archived comment by Ben:
Paul, while an interesting interpretation of commuminism and socialism, I'm not sure if you accurately displayed what communism is about. A better explination of socialism and communism may be found here. (Ignore the last little bit which seems to be an opinion section).

"Communism is based on the belief that what people really want out of life is to exist without having to put in a lot of work- which means that everyone will be equally poor, making just enough for them to live on and no more so that the rest of their time is free to pursue art or literature or whatever."

Communism is based on the idea that the people decide their fate as a whole for the betterment of the people. Communism attempts to prevent exploitation of the people through tight labor controls in favor of preserving the life of workers. Communism in europe arose, not from the fields and farms, but from the unskilled workers who were taken advantage of in the factories. Capitalism attempts to maximize productivity at the cost of employee lifespan (burnt-out, over-worked employees, individual reward for maximized production levels). Communism attempts to maximize employee lifespan and sacrifice productivity(union protection, realisitic caps on production, shared reward for steady production levels).

Communist China, is closer to your example of farmers and landworkers rising to power.

What are the actual drawbacks to communism? A major one is the suppression of dissent or differing views from the collective. In the former USSR, religion was forced out. In China, students were massacred in Tiananmen Square when they presented views different from the government. In these cases civil liberties as a whole are suppressed in an effort to maintain an ordered society. I would point out that recent world events have forced the US to impose similar such suppressive actions on its own people.

Another major problem is the effect of corruption. Corruption in any society exists. It must be accepted and expected. Communism attempts to curb corruption by pleasing everyone and suppressing those who dissent. In realitiy however, communism cannot completely remove corruption. When corruption occurs, because each person has become a valuable part in a well oiled machine, it can have a 'monkey wrench' effect. Since communism is based on labor, the most common form of corruption is the syphening off of resources or produced goods for personal gain. The problem is, these goods which are syphened off mean the collective as a whole looses these resources, and everyone - including the profiteers looses in a domino effect (if I need to explain that, tell me). This means one of the goals of the communist society has to be to expect the corruption and over-compensate production levels for it. This in turn creates a surplus of goods which become devalued, and the exploiters then move to steal a now greater valued good. Effectively a round-robbin approach occurs, where an excess of some good is always on hand, and there are always shortages due to corruption. In turn the devalued good is incapable of equaling the price which the black market good (sold by the exploiter) has achieved through this process. This is where the economic stagnation and downfall of communism can be seen.

However, if this can be kept in check, communists can outlast other world powers during economic turmoil. When a capitalist society goes through a deflation in their economy (a la the great depression) and lage populations loose their jobs, large ripples can be seen in the lower classes. The poor get poorer and the rich stay rich enough, that when the recovery occurs they are more on top than before. Communism attempts to keep an even employment, preventing this kind of classism.

To avoid lengthening this any more, I will refrain from analizing the capitalist society, I will assume that a great many of us experience it every day, and given this short (Trust me, I could write volumes on this subject) analysis, that enough basic information is present for anyone to do this on their own.

Ok, so which is better, capitalism or communism? I don't know. I live in a capitalist society, I have labor tendencies, but I strongly support a large portion of the market economy. I have a bumper sticker on my car which says 'people before profit' and I believe that in every way. I would like to believe that we are all in this together, and that we as a whole are all on the up and up with ethics and morals. Is that so? I don't think so, as I said, I'd like to believe it.

Archived comment by Adam:
As they say, in capitalism man exploits man. In communism, it's the other way around.

Archived comment by X:
Which doesn't mean there isn't a better system. For a good look at what our capitalist future could bring, and some possible solutions for capitalism, read anything by Kim Stanley Robinson. (Except A Short, Sharp Shock; it's a great book, but doesn't have anything to do with politics.)

Archived comment by Paul:
(rant mode)

Okay, the reason that true Communism doesn't work is simply that it runs against human nature.

Communism is based on the belief that what people really want out of life is to exist without having to put in a lot of work- which means that everyone will be equally poor, making just enough for them to live on and no more so that the rest of their time is free to pursue art or literature or whatever. This may sound good at first glance, but...

If this were the case, why would people have given up being hunter-gatherers in favor of farming? And why would people have started inventing machinery to replace horses? And why would some of the people have given up farming altogether in favor of city life?

The answer is that people are rarely satisfied with what they have. They always want something more, and are willing to work a little harder for it. So you will have people who will try to get more than their quota of the resources. And then you will always have people who want their quota but are not willing to work for it, since there will be someone else to support the system and they can leech off it. Want a real-world example of this? Look at what happened to Russia. You got major criminal organizations and inefficient bureaucracies after a while when the original idealists died off.

So Marx's theories are based on a very seriously flawed premise, which then makes the whole thing unsupportable.

(/rant mode)

This was the substance of my argument with the prof way back when, and it earned his respect. It showed that at least I was paying attention and thought to it all.

Capitalism, for all its flaws, is still the best system to come along yet.

Archived comment by Viki:
"It's very easy to be anti-capitalist when you're living in the richest nation in the world. I mean, capitalism has worked out pretty good for us over the years. I'm sure there are a lot of people in the Third World who would gladly trade economies with us."

I would say it's easier to be anticapitalist in a less developed country, where you have nothing to lose but your chains and the world to gain (and just because I quote Castro, doesn't mean I think he's necessarily a good thing) and when Communism seems to provide equality and a better standard of living. In fact, I would say that those who campaign against capitalism do so because they want a fairer and more equal world (improving the lot of those in the third world). Why would anticapitalists be campaigning on their own behalf? By and large, capitalism creates a very high standard of living, thus creating political (or at least revolutionary) inertia.
And the best way to get rid of wishy-washy anticapitalists who talk in clich�ed slogans and ask where the love is, is to introduce them to revolutionary Communism, or Fabianism. This will at least give direction to their dissent.

Archived comment by Arlene:
A friend of mine transferred from one school to another & found out that his bio class didn't. So he had to take a bio class again for his 'perspectives' (those classes we are/were forced to take to be well-rounded & informed individuals). He opened the textbook, noticed the author and checked the aknowledgements/contributors. He had to drop out of the class. Apparently if you are mentioned as a contributor in a textbook you aren't allowed to take that class. Who knew.

Archived comment by Yuri:
I've had classes with nodders before, but this semester I have a professor who nods. Vigorously. He reminds me of one of those drinking birds when he really gets going.

Archived comment by Sinner:
hey you're right--it does sound insufferably arrogent.

Archived comment by Saint:
I have to confess, I did a bit of nodding in some of my linguistics classes. Mostly, I was approving the way the prof explained things. I know that sounds insufferably arrogant, and I suppose it is; but I have a letter of recommendation from the prof that says I knew the subject better than she did.

Aside from that, the only nodding I ever did was nodding off. I was the girl in the middle row of early morning classes, the one with her head propped up on a book so as not to appear to be sleeping. (By the way, learning by osmosis really does work, I don't care what anybody says...)

Archived comment by Vivo:
"Okay, slightly off topic, but does anyone have the "old nodders" in their class? People who are probably over 40 years old, sit in the front row of lecture, and nod their heads vigourously after each point the proffessor makes in a "Of course, that makes perfect sense" sort of way?"

Yes, at least 3 rows worth. Mine are all arts subjects too...

Archived comment by Arlene:
Then there's what my boyfriend once pulled. He suggested an theory tagline to explain relationships that threw the professor's paper out the window (ie gave a whole new aspect on the paper that she was writing for publication that therefore required a re-write).

If anyone actually understood that, you are an honorary dizzy blond
(I am a blond & I've been suffering a dizzy spell for the past 2.5 hours)

Archived comment by Ben:
Trust me, I didn't forget it. I'm still just trying to burn the images out of my mind.

Archived comment by Shadow:
Ben you forgot the (un)healthy amount of Confederate flags on his jacked up Chevy truck with huge tires for muddin', with a horn that whistles dixie... Oh, and the Calvin sticker pissing on a Ford symbol. Oh, and maybe a "3" in memory of Dale Earnhardt. Ah, and the super long antennae for his CB.

Yes I live in the South... But I /do/ live in Atlanta...

Archived comment by Jim:
It isn't a deterrent if you won't use it. [kind of like the death penalty]

Archived comment by Ben:
Well, lets not forget to leave out 'redneck guy' who probably works construction during the summer, probably chews tabacco, holds Rush Limbaugh as a God - only because he makes fun of tree huggers - not that he's actually read anything by him, says things with the intent only to infuriate, and *probably* has 12 flags coming off of his truck and a sign that says "Nuke them Mr Bush". (Be patriotic all you like, but don't promote the use of nuclear weapons as anything more than deterrents - which I personally don't believe they are). How's that for a run on sentences?

Archived comment by Matt:
Doug--Abbie (sp?) Hoffman wrote _Steal_This_Book_.
One of my favorite teachers was my Psych teacher in high school who, on the first day of class, warned us that anyone caught sleeping risked being beaned with a piece of chalk. He came through on that more than once, and I'll be damned if he didn't hit his target every time.

Archived comment by Karin:
My physics prof decided to be cool, he started asking people what the answer to a problem was. Just started in the back righthand corner and worked his way over to the left. Well, it's a required, dry class and needless to say, there were a lot of "I don't know"'s

Archived comment by Aaron:
Hm. I go to an all-male catholic high school.
Commenting on that last one there:

Yeah, guys almost always say everything as if
they /know/ it's correct. However, at my school
anyway, people get slammed pretty quick for
shooting their mouths off. So only fairly
accurate or thought-provoking responses tend to
be suggested in class. (Unless of course, the kid
prefaces his statement by saying he's not sure.)

-- Aaron

Archived comment by Jim:
Nighthawk-Gen

It was my understanding that males appeared to participate more in class because they spoke up more. They are not necessarily right, but they say it with conviction and SOUND right. Females on the other hand put more thought into the topic and are more often right, but don't sound right because they don't sound as confident.

Archived comment by Doug:
From the 1970s (when I was in college - the first time):

A friend was raving about the book "Steal This Book" by either Abbie Hoffman or Jerry Rubin (don't remember which), going on and on about how the government rips everyone off and how we all should likewise rip off the government when another friend asked him, "So, did you steal this book or did you buy it?"

"Umm...I bought it." End of conversation.

I've been known to be the nodding guy and usually that means you're somewhat familiar with the subject matter and are just happy to have remembered more than where you live, your automatic teller PIN number and where you parked your car.

Archived comment by triticale:
When Steve Wozniak, designer of the original Apple computers, went back to college in 1981 (under an assumed name; for his own satisfaction) he had anti-capitalism guy as an instructor. So here's this person who had launched what was, at that point, the fastest growing company in history, and had made himself an 8 figure fortune by building a product people wanted because it was seen as much better and cheaper than anything which had existed before, and he has to put up with being told that the only way companies make money is by inducing people to buy things they don't want and pay more than the products are worth.

Archived comment by Karin:
I just thought of this...
We had an AP psych teacher in high school who would bring a water gun to class and aim it at people, occasionally shooting someone. The deal was something about how people would flinch. Then he said he wouldn't shoot any girls, but noted how girls still flinched when it was pointed towards them, afriad of getting wet. The reason for this was some over-makeuped girl shouting at one point in time "Do you know how long it took me to put this face on??" Yeah, complete airhead. What would she do if it was raining.

Come to think of it, this was the same teacher who had us pool our money, threw in a bunch himself, then sent 3 students out to buy food so our class would win the school food drive...

Archived comment by Paul:
For the most part the old nodders attend more liberal arts type classes than technical ones, I've found. Although at one point we had a guy in Multivariable Calc who would shout out responses and questions to the teacher through the lecture and make a macho-sounding "Yeeahh!" when he happened to have worked out the example problem ahead of the teacher and got it right...

I, on the other hand, was the guy who took the political science class and used to occasionally get into arguments with the professor during the lecture- which the professor seemed to particularly enjoy, but used to intimidate the hell out of the younger students. But after about the third week there were a half dozen of us in this class of about 120 who would do that regularly.

My favorite was the time the prof was explaining the basic concepts of Marxism and I muttered "What bullshit" to myself. He stopped in mid stride and turned to me and asked, "Why do you say it's bullshit?"

Absolute silence in the room from the terrified students who thought I was about to get skinned.

Surprised that he had heard me from 20 feet away, I wasn't sure if he was mad- but then I saw him smiling a little and explained why Marx's basic theories are seriously flawed. This got a debate going so intensely that he couldn't finish the lecture.

I got an A in that class, and he still remembers me three years later.

Archived comment by Suplexia:
Off the general topic of the discussion, but related to the quote:

It's very easy to be anti-capitalist when you're living in the richest nation in the world. I mean, capitalism has worked out pretty good for us over the years. I'm sure there are a lot of people in the Third World who would gladly trade economies with us.

Archived comment by umrguy:
Here's one I've had in a few classes, but I think it could also be a type: The obnoxious laugher.

This is a person who will either say something he/she considers funny and then laugh at it, or laugh at something someone else (typically the professor) says. The trick is, usually, either nobody else is laughing, or at most, people might give a small chuckle or grin. And to top it off, the laugh is loud and obnoxious.

(In this case, I have focused on the laughter, and not several other points which could be made about this person but which are irrelevant. The only other one that could have been validly made was the fact that the individual used to stink like crazy, and would bring food into class that reeked of onions [really bad in a small classroom] and eat it. Fortunately, this semester, this person appears to have learned the value of personal hygiene, and you can no longer smell them coming from 20 feet away.)

Archived comment by Nighthawk:
Genevive- I think it's because girls tend to feel like they always have to have something to say, or they'll look like they don't know what's going on (I'm female, so I'm allowed to say that). Guys tend to wait until they have something significant to point out. In class, that is...outside class, it's a whole different story. And there are exceptions, of course; a lot of the guys in my classes don't know when to shut up.

Archived comment by Genevieve:
I have two to add to Ouijibug's list of
malcontents:

I am a religious studies major, and there's a
species of student who take classes like "The
Historical Jesus" to further her own personal
theology - the kind of person who uses "well,
it's in the bible!" as proof of veracity. I've had at
least one in every Rel. Studies class here. I
call them the Religious Right, short for I'm
Religious, Therefore I'm Right.

I am also an English major, and in every
English class I've had, there's been an
Enthusiasm Means I'm Smart Girl. This is the
chick who thinks saying really screechily "Oh,
my God, I LOVE Shakespeare!!" or "When Mr.
Knightly proposed, didn't you just want to
DIE???" means that she really has an
appreciation for the finer points of literature.

Albeit, these are types and not individuals, but
I think they count anyway. I don't know why it's
only girls...

Archived comment by Nighthawk:
Oh yeah, I've got nodders..there's one in a Psych class I'm taking. She nods a lot and asks tons of questions, and she gesticulates quite a lot when she talks. Seems nice, but it's still kinda funny.

No one in my classes thinks everything's about homosexuality, but I do have a TA that relates everything to birds.

Archived comment by Karin:
Okay, slightly off topic, but does anyone have the "old nodders" in their class? People who are probably over 40 years old, sit in the front row of lecture, and nod their heads vigourously after each point the proffessor makes in a "Of course, that makes perfect sense" sort of way?

Also (yes, I guess this is turning into a rant) a) Wasn't Halloween YESTERDAY? and b) Guys, if you are going to wear platform sandals and skimpy dresses for God's sake shave your legs!! You expect us to do it, we expect it from you.

Archived comment by dave:
There's always one of those people with no idea and yet still prepared to ask the question. I went to uni with one, and now there's one working for my client.

He seems more than happy to ask the most bizarre off-topic question, even in front of a forum of his contractors and peers. We all just look at him gobsmacked wondering where they come from and how he got the balls to ask!

Archived comment by Jim:
Sometimes people just don't get it. It's all about ME dammit!!

And if you expect a mind reader for a professor, you should probably be a liberal arts major.

Archived comment by Ursula:
Everything Is About Gay People Boy was in MY Anthropology class. Gave us hours of mirth. I'm snickering at the keyboard as I type this.

Archived comment by Paul:
I was talking to one of my professors the other day in her office when another professor came in, one with whom she was teaching a class. Both of them know me pretty well, so they feel free to discuss things in front of me... So she tells the other prof about how when she was reviewing the last test with her section, one girl raised her hand and said, "Well, I thought of the right answer, but I didn't write it down. Are you going to take off points?"

At this point I thought the other prof was going to explode. She finally managed to get out, "So what did you tell her?"

"Oh, I gave her hell. I told her that if she was asking questions like that she didn't belong in college at all, let alone engineering school."

This is why these two women are becoming my heroes...

Archived comment by Karin:
I have this great Anthropology class they are making me take... And the prof will be lecturing along and the TA's ask the dumbest questions. And the prof never really knows the answers...you'd think she would tell them to shut up, but nope, there they go. Totally irrelevant and off the wall.

PS I think the girl was in my high school graduating class...

Archived comment by CAM2:
Not to be confused with the Nuclear Family on Saturday Night Live . I loved it when they'd comb their hair and clumps of it would pull out.

Archived comment by David.:
Must...not...make..."nuclear family"...joke...ack! Too late!

Archived comment by Phil:
I am an atomic robot and a parent of two, and I find that very offensive.

Archived comment by Adam Cadre:
At the end of my AP history class back in high
school we're discussing the Cold War (which was
still going on at the time) and we're talking
about the pros and cons of the ABM treaty, SDI
and so forth, when the girl one row over raises
her hand and solemnly intones, "YOU CAN'T HUG A
CHILD WITH NUCLEAR ARMS." Then she gets this
satisfied look, as if she's cut through the whole
Gordian knot of Cold War brinksmanship with this
profound pronouncement. A few months later the
Berlin Wall fell, but I deny a causal connection.

Archived comment by Ouijibug:
I think I study with that girl.

I live in a different country, but I SWEAR she's in my class anyway.

The other ones I hate:

Vegan Woman (fun to bait)

Everything Is About Gay People Boy (dude, like, really, SHUT UP - a discussion of medieval witchcraft does NOT have to be had in the light of historical persecution of homosexuals, honest - and me and my rainbow keyring say I'm *not* a homophobe)

Proto-Feminist Chick (save me from people who read The Female Eunuch and think they're ready to debate gender theory)

The Wiccan (more fun than you would BELIEVE during Medieval Witchcraft tutorials)

Ah, academia.