12 January 2004
Submitted by eve on Tue, 01/13/2004 - 12:10am. Wisdom
"Now see, why didn't I learn, when you finally get what you most want you don't want it."
"Whoo, you're on fire tonight. Drink your beer."
--Another guy and girl, also in line for the bathroom at Raleigh's.
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I think not, therefor I am not.
Posted by Kris the Girl on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 2:10pm.
You kids have FAR too much time on your hands. You made a chart?! You should be like me, and spend all your time doing things like...sleeping, or reading books, or even watching TV. Not making charts about the birds and the cats, or lackthereof of either.
No, I am not just bitter because half these "explanations" have me totally lost. Whatever made you think that?
*whistles innocently*
*looks around vapidly*

The formatting got messed, and it shited me.
I DO do other things...
Posted by umrguy on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 10:32pm.
...at the neglect of my supposed research, as a matter of fact. I do all of those things. I bought Small Gods yesterday afternoon, and finished it this afternoon. I watch TV all the time. AND, I spent most of today sleeping.

And yes, I DO have too much time on my hands, which causes the procrastination to fill the time available even more than usual, which is a bad thing.

-There's someone in my head, but it's not me.-
Ah, Pratchett Rocks
Posted by TheEileen on Fri, 03/26/2004 - 3:00pm.
I am, of course, guessing you meant Terry Pratchett's book. Are you really all the way back at Small Gods? You do know there are, like, ten books after that. Read Monstrous Regiment - it was great.

The Eileen
Take the road not taken - the leaves crunch that much louder!
Oh come on. :-)
Posted by umop apisdn on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 5:30pm.
The chart was COOL. :-) Logic is fun. How else do we get the CS geeks out of the computer lab and into philosopy classes?

A precariously balanced mixture of myopic optimism and rampant paranoia.
My personal view
Posted by Kris the Girl on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 8:40am.
If you can't be happy, right now, with who you are/what you have, then something needs to change. Probably your attitude and perceptions.
This is obviously not true in cases like...abusive relationships or sudden poverty or something. But if you're trying to attain happines through material posessions, you'll never have enough--never be satisfied, always want just a little more, yada yada.
Love yourself! You can do it!
*Morphs into Richard Simmons*
"I was once unhappy too, but then I found that--" (starts tearing up)--"When I just loved myself, life got so much better...and you can do this too! Now let's look up my shorts."
Posted by Apple on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 9:03am.
Overthinking is a tragedy, you know.

I am quite happy with who I am and what I have, I just want more.


And, Kris, squick!
Posted by Saint on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 9:13am.
The wonderful thing about happiness resulting from material possessions is that, assuming you have a large enough house, there's always room to get even happier!
Reminds me of a guy I know wh
Posted by dave on Wed, 01/14/2004 - 2:15pm.
Reminds me of a guy I know who said he'd worked with a guy who had paid to have his fantasy of being with two women fulfilled .. only to come down to complain to the madam that he wanted his money back because they were having too much fun and not letting him get involved!

"Million to one chances happen nine times out of ten"
Posted by Cebu on Tue, 01/13/2004 - 7:06pm.
I haven't learned this lesson as I never get what I most desire.


elmo sucks.
Posted by tim on Wed, 01/14/2004 - 9:34am.
where ya been??
--" The torture never stops"--
Have I been gone lately?
Posted by Cebu on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 4:49pm.
Have I been gone lately?

One thing that I've wanted very much is coming true and I'm thrilled. Target is coming to town! It's silly, but dangit I take what I can get.
Life is too complicated.
Me either, Cebu. Me either.
Posted by Yuri on Tue, 01/13/2004 - 10:42pm.
Me either, Cebu. Me either.
Posted by Apple on Wed, 01/14/2004 - 6:40am.
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes, well you might find
You get what you need
You had my hopes up
Posted by umop apisdn on Wed, 01/14/2004 - 9:31am.
There for a moment I thought it was Friday.

Alas, it is not. Although I want it to be. heh heh heh

A precariously balanced mixture of myopic optimism and rampant paranoia.
On the other hand
Posted by umop apisdn on Tue, 01/13/2004 - 5:25pm.
If you want to NOT get something (flu, fruitcake, traffic ticket, a hair in your mashed potatoes, whatever), and you get it anyway, you STILL don't want it.

(want) AND (have) -> NOT (want)
NOT (want) AND (have) -> NOT (want)

therefore (have) -> NOT (want).

So if I don't want anything I have, why do I have so much stuff!!!???

A precariously balanced mixture of myopic optimism and rampant paranoia.
Ummm, no
Posted by umrguy on Wed, 01/14/2004 - 3:09pm.
I hate to be picky, but you've stepped into my sandbox.

TRUE and TRUE -> FALSE (not TRUE) is an inconsistent logical statement. Saying "A and B implies not A" just doesn't work, because it will never be a valid statement.

FALSE and TRUE -> FALSE is somewhat of a redundant statement. You could replace (have) with anything, and the statement would be correct. You could say "NOT (want) AND (puce) -> NOT (want)". Doesn't mean anything.

While your conclusion may be correct, you cannot derive it from the two statements above it.

*Gets out of teacher mode*

-There's someone in my head, but it's not me.-
Wait a sec
Posted by umop apisdn on Wed, 01/14/2004 - 6:31pm.
but (bird) AND (cat) -> NOT(bird)
Well unless the bird is an Amazon. Then it imples NOT(cat). But "AND" is commutitive, so that can be rearranged to "(cat) AND (bird) -> NOT(cat)" which is functionally equivilent (each resulting in one less pet in the house).

I will conceed that "NOT(a) and (b) -> NOT(a)" is a trivially true statement (making it non-inflammnitory in roughly 75% of Internet forums).

A precariously balanced mixture of myopic optimism and rampant paranoia.
Posted by umrguy on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 1:53pm.
(Sorry Brian. And I don't even own a slide rule.)
In propositional logic, it doesn't work like that. You're confusing logic with English :)

What you are saying with your sentence is basically "There exists a bird" AND "There exists a cat" implies "There does NOT exist a bird". This statement does not work in the propositional logic (see the truth table), because there is no time factor in the logic. What you are trying to say is that "There exists a bird" AND "There exists a cat" implies "The bird will be eaten".

bird | cat | bird AND cat | NOT(bird) | bird AND cat -> NOT(bird)
  T     T          T           F                  FALSE
  T     F          F           F              TRIVIALLY TRUE
  F     T          F           T              TRIVIALLY TRUE
  F     F          F           T              TRIVIALLY TRUE

-There's someone in my head, but it's not me.-
Ow, my brain!
Posted by Mike on Fri, 01/16/2004 - 7:55am.
I thought I wanted an explanation, but once I finally got one...
 me | explanation | me AND explanation | NOT(understanding) | me AND explanation -> NOT(understanding)
 T         T                T                    T                       HORRIBLY TRUE

Okay, okay, so maybe I just wanted to try that chart thingie. (*stumbles back to liberal arts*)
But you did it so well...
Posted by umrguy on Fri, 01/16/2004 - 11:08am.
No problems with that chart. :)

-There's someone in my head, but it's not me.-
Gotta give...
Posted by ParU on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 7:43pm.
2 Loonie pts and a cool pt to umrguy for the chart/table. Very well done.
And if KtG got together with umrguy, what would their chart look like?

(Hey, OK ain't that far from MO)
Location, location, location
Posted by Apple on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 8:31pm.
Isn't Kris from Alaska, originally?? Hmmm. The word "cold" comes to mind. Not that that's a bad thing. Cold is very nice. IMHO, anyway. *grin*
And how creepy is it that a pop up ad with the title "Foresee" decided to come along with this page?? Guess it's time for Ad Aware, again. *sigh*
Timing, too
Posted by Jon on Fri, 01/16/2004 - 6:52am.
Normally I would agree, but the last few days have been colder than I would like. I know, I know, [Locations x, y, z] get colder temperatures regularly. It's more that I thought I could handle the rilly cold, and I can't. Shattered illusions and all that.
I prefer spybot actually
Posted by hypoxic on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 8:50pm.
Spybot catches a bit more for me.
Posted by Apple on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 9:24pm.
Heh. I'm not the one that determines the useable software on this machine. And, I don't feel like an argument, so, I'll just use whats I gots.


disclaimer: yes, the grammar is on purpose. :^P
What is your...
Posted by ParU on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 10:14pm.
Grandmother doing on a porpoise? (dolphin)? Oh, I see you meant it that way *g*...

And Glad you guys are using Ad-Aware. I seem to recall that a few of you had several hundred pieces of spyware on your systemsl.
Hmm.... kinda hard to argue with that.
Posted by umop apisdn on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 5:37pm.
yeah, ok, you caught me with the time thing. I conceed. :-)

I actually had to write a computer language based entirely on boolean logic as a senior project in college. Completely useless, but a very, very cool project. LISP is neat too, but not particularly useful on a resume either. Hey, I'm seeing a trend here....

Logic doesn't seem to be a marketable skill. :-)

A precariously balanced mixture of myopic optimism and rampant paranoia.
Not a marketable skill ?
Posted by peegee on Fri, 01/16/2004 - 12:18am.
But I do logic for a living. It pays my bills. It keeps me occupied from nine to five and longer. Occasionally it lets me travel the world for conferences. And one day soon it may creep into my dreams more regularly than it already does. Logic provably rocks ! *grin*
Half a cool pt
Posted by ParU on Fri, 01/16/2004 - 9:16am.
to peegee for the 'Provably' word coinage. Coining a new word, in a language not your native tongue (Peegee's Danish for those who don't know), ain't easy.
Posted by daen on Fri, 01/16/2004 - 3:43pm.
I doubt that credit for "Provably" belongs to peegee. It's a fairly standard (granted, somewhat infrequently used) form of provable and proove.

Check dictionary.com if you don't believe me.
Posted by ParU on Fri, 01/16/2004 - 3:59pm.
but he used it correctly. Can you use a non-standard, made-up word in Danish, correctly?
Posted by daen on Sat, 01/17/2004 - 8:26am.
No, I can't use a non-standard made-up word in Danish correctly.
daenish, on the other hand...
(You should have known that was coming.)

I wasn't disputing the cool point; I was disputing your choice of words. peegee didn't "coin" the word, and it is not made up.
I'd give him the cool point for breadth of vocabulary in a second language.

And peegee-- there's always something to argue about. In this case, it's semantics.
Posted by ParU on Sat, 01/17/2004 - 10:34am.
No argument, but I gotta give daen 0.5 cool pts for 'daenish' - Clever!
A late, late friday song
Posted by peegee on Sat, 01/17/2004 - 5:31pm.
In honour of the clever Danish/Daenish pun, and almost tying in with the Sesame Street discussion on the other thread I bring you...

Who can turn a can into a cane ?
Who can turn a pan into a pane ?
It's not too hard to see, it's silent e.

Who can turn a cub into a cube ?
Who can turn a tub into a tube ?
It's elementary for silent e.

He took a pin and turned it into a pine.
He took a twin and turned him into twine.

Who can turn a cap into a cape ?
Who can turn a tap into a tape ?
A little glob becomes a globe instantly,
If you just add silent e.

He turned a dam - alakazam - into a dame,
But my friend Sam stayed just the same.

Who can turn a man into a mane ?
Who can turn a van into a vane ?
A little hug becomes huge instantly,
Don't add w, don't add x and don't add y or z,
Just add silent e.
Posted by Matt on Sat, 01/17/2004 - 6:12pm.
By Tom Lehrer, as part of a special 2-song contribution he did for the PBS reading show, The Electric Company. The other song was "L-Y."

Well done, peegee. Well done indeed.
Yes, quite good...
Posted by paul on Sun, 01/18/2004 - 12:01am.
Too bad Lehrer turned out to be such an asshole, though. Ever read his commentary on the shuttle disasters? Lileks was right- your childhood heroes always live long enough to disappoint you.
Posted by Joe Napalm on Wed, 01/21/2004 - 4:51pm.
your childhood heroes always live long enough to disappoint you.

Oh? What if they're martyrs?

Efreeti Sophist
Posted by steff on Wed, 01/21/2004 - 6:59pm.
that means you had one messed-up childhood.
Not necessarily.
Posted by Yuri on Sun, 01/18/2004 - 10:56am.
Mr. Rogers never once let me down.
Posted by Apple on Mon, 01/19/2004 - 6:14pm.
What if you were afraid of heights?? Would he have let you down then??


And, he did bore me to tears. Not so disappointing as annoying, though.
Mr. Rogers...
Posted by ParU on Mon, 01/19/2004 - 7:39pm.
Perhaps Apple, because you were too old to be watching Mr. Rogers??
It's Amino world without Chemists
Posted by Apple on Tue, 01/20/2004 - 6:22am.
I can't help it if I'm a good aunt!
I never wanted to watch Mr Rogers. When I was a youngun', my mom thought I needed it, but I never wanted it.
I'd be a good aunt if my neph
Posted by Cebu on Tue, 01/20/2004 - 8:45am.
I'd be a good aunt if my nephew was ever in town. I can easily watch kid shows. I even like the Teletubbies. They're so weird it's amusing. I was a Mr. Rogers fan as a kid. Now it's a little slow.
"When you finally stop getting what you never really wanted..."
Posted by Mike on Tue, 01/20/2004 - 8:38am.

(*falls to the ground with a splitting headache*)
You're never too old
Posted by umrguy on Tue, 01/20/2004 - 4:19am.
To watch Mr. Rogers. When I'm up at 7am (when they show it locally), I often switch it on to see what's happening. I like to say that Mr. Rogers is soul food for the sleep deprived. He makes you feel good about yourself "by just your being you" :) In fact, I plan on checking on it this morning.

(One of the most interesting series of episodes involved the Neighborhood of Make Believe in a not-quite an arms race with Someplace Else. Looking back on it, it makes me wonder (and try to remember) what may have been going on in the world to inspire such a story line. Anyway, I do recall that it turns out that Someplace Else was using the parts to make things like bridges, not bombs, so King Friday's fears were groundless....)

-There's someone in my head, but it's not me.-
Good point...
Posted by ParU on Tue, 01/20/2004 - 11:23am.
umrguy - The cool thing about Mr. Rogers (who my daughter adored) was that he wasn't pushing toys/action figures. It's sad that there's no replacement these days for him. Hopefully they'll rerun his shows forever though.
It's Amino world without Chemists
In perspective
Posted by peegee on Sat, 01/17/2004 - 1:00am.
I sincerely appreciate the cool pt, and true, 'provably' is a somewhat non-standard word, but it is not that uncommon in my little corner of the world; I should have at least some idea how to use it. On the other hand, who is to say how exactly every other IPer's corner of the world is furnished. So please don't argue, when there is nothing to argue about.
Posted by Matt on Thu, 01/15/2004 - 3:59pm.
Whoa. Excellent chart, umrguy!

I think Kris needs to spend a little less time in the Liberal Arts/Humanities department.

The corollary to that, of course, is that umrguy needs to spend a lot more time there.
Posted by brian65401 on Wed, 01/14/2004 - 6:25pm.
OK, take a deep breath and put the slide rule down. Take 15 laps around Stonehenge for getting into teacher mode about logic statements.

You know I worked in the Mil Sci dept at UMR for about 5 months. After that I was beggin' to get orders to ANYWHERE. Great school, but you guys scare me.

But all will be forgiven if you'll send me a real estate paper...I might be coming back. ;-)
Posted by Mia on Tue, 01/13/2004 - 1:44pm.
Sadly, this sounds like two of my residents; the guy drinks like a fish and the girl provides entertainment for him. And other guys. Way to live in a coed house. Gah.
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