11 January 2001
Submitted by eve on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 12:53am. News
Two new things:
First, is a meta news item, saying that news will now appear on the front page with other entries, so that everyone can read it, and also so that you can comment on it, because sometime feedback is nice to have.
Second: I got an email from Bla-Bla today basically explaining that the idea of banner ads was dead, and that pop-ups (or "interstitials," as they liked to call them) were what bla-bla affiliates would have to support in the future.
Personally, I hate pop-ups, and if I'd be annoyed to read my own site, imagine how annoyed you all would be?
On the other hand, I was getting $19 a month from Bla-Bla, and site hosting costs me about $34, so ending my contract with them would mean In Passing would cost me even more to run. I've seen alternative solutions to this, such as webmasters who make it possible for visitors to send them a dime, or a quarter via pay pal (such as AOLiza,) kind of like a tipping system. But at the same time, I don't know how I'd feel about hitting people up for money.
Anyone have thoughts or suggestions?
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Posted by Anne Onymous on Sat, 01/20/2001 - 10:14pm.
Archived comment by Annette:
So you transfer a little over 2G/month? Pshaw! (Don't you just love that word? Talk about made-up.) 2G/month for an almost all-text site is something of which a webmaster can be proud. Have you thought about sponsorship instead of tipping or rotating ads? We sponsor a handful of sites, and this one is certainly one I'd consider for that sort of thing.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Mon, 01/15/2001 - 1:17am.
Archived comment by IP Admin:
Passerby, I appreciate your suggestion, and the potentially useful page of links.
Unfortunately, In Passing is a little more complicated than its simple exterior would have you believe. In order to manage the large amount of content and larger amount of comments, I need a web host that provides shell access, a MySQL server, and PHP, among other things, which (AFAIK) free web hosts unfortunately do not provide.
Also, many of them have pop-up ads, or at the very least banner ads, and I'm truly desiring to get away from those right now.
Again though, thank you for the suggestion.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Sun, 01/14/2001 - 4:58pm.
Archived comment by Passerby:
I'm puzzled by the $34/month for "site hosting",
when there are a number of free Web-space
providers. Have you tried any of the ones listed
on About.com's free Web services page --
http://freebies.about.com/shopping/freebies/cs/hom
epag
Posted by Anne Onymous on Sun, 01/14/2001 - 3:16pm.
Archived comment by Adam:
Or better yet, how 'bout this. Put up the goal page I described, and put a date on it... if we reach the goal before that date (say, three months), our prize, as a community, is no advertising for the next year. If we fail, then hell with it, we deserve the popups! And, of course, you keep whatever portion we did get in. ;-)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Sun, 01/14/2001 - 3:01pm.
Archived comment by Adam:
IP Admin,
I really like the idea of tipping, rather than ads. Personally, as a college student, I'd be able to chip in about $10 every couple months. The one thing that would be nice, though, would be if you had a page with a goal, and the amount you had received so far. Say your goal for the year is $1000; hosting, plus a bit extra for you (I doubt any of us would be adverse to you making a profit!). That's a reasonable amount, and indeed you could probably get quite a bit more. But by having up a page with that goal, and how much of it you've already received, it makes people more likely to wanna chip in; they can see the impact they have, and it makes it that much more exciting. This site is wonderful; you've earned a little profit.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Sun, 01/14/2001 - 6:34am.
Archived comment by Pen:
I am one of those lurkers that visit often but not necessarily to post a comment. I would be willing to pay for the pleasure, but as I am in Australia, is that possible?
Posted by Anne Onymous on Sat, 01/13/2001 - 9:45pm.
Archived comment by IP Admin:
My god, you all amaze me. $50? $100? I was hoping for 10 cents!

For those of you asking about traffic, the site transfers about 70 megs per day, but that's a lot considering IP is mainly text. (We're all about content, baby.) So far as average number of visitors goes, it's roughly 1000 per day, though the biggest day was 12,000. See, I wasn't kidding when I said there were a _lot_ of lurkers.
As for the page loading painfully slowly, that's nothing on my end; bla-bla has a really slow ad server.

However, we'll have to wait and see what the future holds for Bla-bla and IP. They really are nice folks, with some great ideals. But as I said before, Hell hath no fury like a webmistress whose readers are subjected to pop-ups. :-)

As for rewards for tippers, I wouldn't go _this_ far: (Warning, content probably rated R or worse) http://bfatt-lazy.com/scam/what.shtml

I'm not the kind of person who would take money without saying thank you, either.
However, if you'd like racy pictures, there are a million _other_ girls on the internet who would probably be glad to sell you some.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Sat, 01/13/2001 - 4:17pm.
Archived comment by Mike:
Victor Kim, to get racy pictures in your email, you-- um-- you have to give an email *address*.
On a slightly related note (in my mind, anyway); IP Admin, did you know that "The Giving Zone" link on your "Links" page doesn't seem to work? Hey, if you go in for the Paypal deal, will you give discounts to those of us who go to the "Goodness" sites and click a bunch of times?
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 8:24pm.
Archived comment by Carole:
Oh, go for it-- you are a providing a service to US, the public, your "fans", and we getto enjoy it. I hate the thought that YOU have to pay to entertain us! So I, for one, do not mind the pop-up---I usually close the window before it loads anyway! Do what you have to do to keep this terrific site running!!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 7:25pm.
Archived comment by Victor Kim:
I noticed my previously submitted comment doesnt give you(whoever you are) a whole lot to bite into.
Which makes me think; Who are you??? why should I or any one else tip You...especially through the anonymity of the internet. There is no gratifying nod like we get from an appreciative bartender, or the pleasure of hearing a bell hops spurious "Thank you sir"

Recognition for the tip is everything to a tipper. So I propose you grant those who tip you with an emailed photo of yourself; so that we may better indulge ourselves into the remarkable inpassing.org webmaster we all know and love.
--and for the big tippers out there, maybe send a racy photo with a little more skin?? huh? yeah.... now we're leading somewhere!




Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 6:58pm.
Archived comment by Victor Kim:
i notice your in a financial bind. you should consider the sell-out option .

Yes, Sell out Big time--Sell out like all the students majoring in business--Sell out like a fake-breasted, notalent inane bop that slept with the devil so to have hit songs like "oops i did it again"
--Sell out like the 49% of the popular voters who selected Bush.
......selling out....yeah.. thats where its at baby....
mmmmm...britneyspears is so hot...

Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 6:32pm.
Archived comment by Passerby:
I've occasionally noticed the site being slow. We have a line-of-site antenna at home and a T1 at work.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 5:54pm.
Archived comment by Faithful Lurker:
I agree with several other's posts, to wit:
* Popups are Eeee-vil, but wouldn't stop me from visiting.
* I'd cheerfully tip to avoid popups, $10, $30, whatever. Hell, I'd cheerully tip anyway, in gratitude for your production of such a great idea.
* Yes, the site is slow to both my DSL at home and the DSL at work. (How much traffic do you get, anyway?)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 5:34pm.
Archived comment by MauriceB:
Here's the solution. It's easy and it's FREE!

http://www.panicware.com/downloads/DPPopUpStopper.exe
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 4:44pm.
Archived comment by Nymec:
I agree that pop-up ads are evil. I would donate $10 or whatever via PayPal (already have an account, it is painless to setup, to get donations from people without an account you can use their webpayment thing which is painless and holds the payers hand).

Second point on hosting - please find another host! Well, you don't have to but personally I'd be happy. inpassing.org is rather slow on my connection (784k SDSL). It shouldn't be - I don't think it is the scripting so it must be the host/connection. It would be ludicrous to get a different host just because of my slowdown but perhaps others are experiencing the same thing?

Lastly thanks for doing this. I love the interesting and often funny insights into life. Please excuse my bad grammer and spelling!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 10:16am.
Archived comment by MMP:
There's another alternative. According to an old newspaper article I saved, there are a bunch of places to get free (or not free) pop-up killer utilities. Like http://www.iconlabs.net/sip.html or http://www.firase.com/ or http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/network/pow.htm
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 9:01am.
Archived comment by Penny:
I would be more than happy to give tips or even pay a membership fee. It sounds like you could make a lot more money that way. You really could get paid to do what you love!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 8:54am.
Archived comment by Jamie:
Although I come here a few times week, seeking the amusement that my job just does not offer, this is the first time I've posted... but I think it is necessary to chime in.... POP-UP ADS ARE EVIL! I would certainly throw some cash your way just to avoid them.... and I think you do a great job with this site, so you deserve to have some financial backing that comes with no strings attached.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 8:22am.
Archived comment by LMZ:
I detest pop-up ads but I would prefer that to a "tipping" system. I have noticed how much more frequently I am running into pop-up ads - and therefore I have become somewhat adept at hitting Alt+F4 without even thinking. So I don't think that adding these annoyances would necessarily keep me stopping by to enjoy your page. Good luck!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 01/12/2001 - 5:12am.
Archived comment by nightfever:
Ohmigod! 2-4 pop-ups per session?? Ummmm...no...go with the tipping option. I dunno about a bulk pay of $100 as someone suggested, but (assuming my salary stays constant) I would be another of the people to throw in a sum of around $50 no problem!

Or tipping...will tip no problem too! I reckon that with fools like me out here, you stand a chance of making a profit that you can use to eat out and travel around more and thus have an even bigger site??
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 9:49pm.
Archived comment by Ranger:
I would be more than willing to pay $10 to $20 a year to access your site and not be hassled with pop ups. I'll bet that more than a few of your loyal readers would be willing to do the same. I read it at least 3 times a week and that is a hell of a lot more than any other site I have on my bookmarks. Keep up the good work.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 8:39pm.
Archived comment by Gornar:
I'm putting myself in with the tip crowd. I don't know what the stats are for this site, but it seems to attract a loyal following, and would probably pay a handsome ransom to keep this site pop-up free (I didn't mind the idea of one, but 2-4 is absurd). This could result in a nice profit for our fabulous Admin.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 6:09pm.
Archived comment by Jane:
I should have mentioned in my earlier message
that, although I will put up with pop-ups to visit
the site, I am very willing to pay to keep pop-ups
out.

PS: 2-4 are TOO MA
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 5:38pm.
Archived comment by Xopher:
$228 a year for banner ads and popups?

I think you would make far more than that soliciting donations, and I, for one, would much rather tip someone than have to put up with the ads.

It isnt that the ads themselves are the big problem, annoying as they are, it is that often the banner ad servers are being completely thrashed and the entire page won't load until the ad loads. I hate that.

I would easily pay $10-$20 a year to read the site, and as long as you didn't institute a three month web-a-thon every year to drive donations, it would be way less annoying than ads.

I bet you would actually make more money a year from donations than from banner ads.

chris
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 5:17pm.
Archived comment by Kevin Fox:
First, thanks for the plug! Second, I've had many of the same thoughts regarding ads on AOLiza. One idea I came up with, but haven't implemented because I want to kick it around some more, is having ads by default (popup, whatever you have to do) but allow people to contribute, say, $5 to get a 'get out of popups for a year' thingy. It puts a cookie on your browser, and if you use more than one computer, you can enter your email address on the site from any computer and it'll issue the cookie again.
If I were doing it all over again (and, coincidentally, I am redesigning AOLiza right now) the only other thing I'd do differently is offer several buttons to donate different amounts. I have a lot of people donating 50 cents, but some people go into paypal to donate a dollar, $5, or $10. It might be nice to give them the option of donating anything from a nickel to a hundred dollars. Everyone has a different outlook on where they fit on that continuum. They feel good paying, you feel good getting, and nobody has to read about cheap long distance or monkeys aching to get punched.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 2:21pm.
Archived comment by A reader in Marin:
Yes - pop-ups are annoying, but that is what close buttons are for, no? (Much like a delete key when it comes to email.) If it helps you keep the sight running, I'll deal with it. This website is one of the highpoints of my day. So keep up the good work, even if it means I have to close a pop-up ad.

Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 2:03pm.
Archived comment by Kristen:
I also despise pop-ups. Even though it does not require much effort to just clear them out, it's the principle of the matter. I would be more than happy to kick in some money to keep this site going.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 2:01pm.
Archived comment by IP Admin:
I should explain a little, why my hosting is so expensive. Given that Dreamhost has promised that IP will soon be moving to their new server with spiffy new services, for $34 I will be getting: three domains hosted with two ssh logins, php, mysql, cvs, a lot of POP accounts, 10 gigs of bandwidth, 20 subdomains on each domain, and a lot of other handy things.
Admittedly, I'm not using all of these features right now, and the other two domains hosted belong to someone else, so really it's more like I'm paying $27 a month. But still, if someone knows of an web hosting service that would support the features I mentioned above for less than what I'm paying, I'd certainly be interested.
As for Bla-Bla being on their last legs: I haven't seen their name over at this place yet, but I have heard they're having problems. It's a shame, because I really did like the folks from bla-bla that I met, and their original idea of banding together independent sites to help support the webmasters was really cool.
Unfortunately, I feel the same way about pop-ups as some of you do. If I click on them more often, it's only because I'm trying to close them as quickly as possible. Bla-bla wants to have at least 2-4 pop-ups per browser session on my page, which I don't really feel right about.
However, I'm still interested in your views -- so far it seems like a voluntary tip via paypal is a viable option for support, at least until I can get out of college and get a real job.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 1:15pm.
Archived comment by Gregg:
DOWN WITH POP-UPS!!!!!!!!
I can't believe most of you are ok w/pop-ups! We have to teach these pop-up pushers a lesson and boycott pop-up friendly sites!

I URGE you to please use any other means to finding revenue than pop-ups!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 1:10pm.
Archived comment by Paul:
I've heard through the grapevine that Bla-bla is on its last legs anyway, that the only people left there are the senior administration people. (My source is someone who used to work there.) Maybe it's time to find a new host and new sponsors.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 11:38am.
Archived comment by Sarah:
I have no problem with pop ups, if that is what you need to do to keep the costs down. Your sight is well worth it to me to put up with a few pop ups. Thanks for letting us put in our "two cents"
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 11:30am.
Archived comment by Chuck:
I don't post here much, but I do stop by and read it 2-4 times per week. I probably wouldn't come by as often (if at all) if you had pop-ups. OTOH, I would gladly pay one or two dollars per month to read this.

Side note: I haven't used paypal yet. Is it possible to set up recurring payments? That would be the best, so I don't have to remember when the last time I donated was.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 11:04am.
Archived comment by gleamfollower:
No popups, please. If it'll help, set up a PayPal account, email me the address, and I'll send you $100. Find three other patrons, and you're set for a year.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 10:26am.
Archived comment by tim451:
I agree with everyone in saying that your hosting is too high. I use 5bucksamonth.com for my website, and that british guy seems to be getting a pretty good deal too. Other than that, I'm not sure what to tell you. I love the site, but it would be so much funnier if your name was Eve and you could call this site Eve's Drop.

Information wants to be free, but so does Charles Manson.

--tim451
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 9:56am.
Archived comment by TimDog:
I hate to be picky, but I don't like the red with the purple blue and white. How about purple text for the "News" title and visited links? I will continue to read despite pop-ups, but they are annoying. I'd be willing to pitch in a buck every so often to avoid seeing them, that sounds like a cool solution, tho much more work for you initially. Either way, I hope you find some cheaper hosting. Check out bootbox.net, my link above. They look interesting, tho I haven't actually worked with them personally.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 8:58am.
Archived comment by Larry Hosken:
Of course, there's always the technical fix. Once you've implemented accounts for us, implement billing. If user X pays N dollars, then for the next N months, user X won't see the interstitials.

Wouldn't it be fun to implement a billing system? Of course, once the money starts paying for something worthwhile, then your viewers--I mean customers--would demand that you use a "bulletproof, mission critical" database.

Uhm, yeah well.

Oh, lookie, my compile's done!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 8:51am.
Archived comment by Larry Hosken:
Disclaimer: I usually leave Javascript turned off, so I doubt that I'd see the pop-ups.

I sent money to Salon when they asked for members. I sent a dollar bill to some web site whose webmaster posted "Give me a dollar" as a joke.

In theory, I'd pay for this site. In practice, I've been too lazy of a bum to get set up on paypal so far.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 8:33am.
Archived comment by Pary:
Another voice of support for you Site Goddess, another one of my favorite sites had to add a pop-up on the front page of their site. Just another click is how I feel about it. Your content is worth one more movement of the index finger for me.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 8:04am.
Archived comment by A1phab3t:
1. I hate popups, and if there were popups on your site, I would visit only a few times a week rather than a few times a day.
2. I read the banner ads, and I click on them, precisely because I know they pay for the sites I enjoy. I do not click on popups.
3. I boo the commercials before the movie every time. I also boo the Pepsi girl western clip at Regal theaters.
4. I gave $10 to Blogger. I gave $10 to openletters.net. I would give $10 to In Passing in a heartbeat.
5. Your hosting is too expensive. Check out www.below10host.com. 200 megs of space, 6 gigs of bandwidth, PHP, MySQL, and SSH access for $10 a month. No phone support, but their email support is excellent.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 7:52am.
Archived comment by Mike:
Okay, I'm computer illiterate and all, but that won't stop me from chiming in, will it?
About pop-ups: will they show up with absolutely *every* new section entered? That could get really old really fast. A typical page on your website contains at least *ten* subsections-- more if the comments in one section number more than 25. Having to kill a pop-up everytime you view a comment would get VERY annoying...
Of course, it'd be unfair of us to demand that you provide us with entertainment AND pay for it yourself. (I have Napster for that.) I think that a voluntary-payment deal for us wouldn't be all that bad. In fact, if there are as many people hanging around this site as you say there are, it might actually be more profitable that what you have now. A quarter or dime per month from each person would recoup all your expenses... I lose that much in vending machines every WEEK. Of course, it would help if you could pay anonymously.
Whatever you do, we'll keep showing up, I bet. (*phfft*) Like we have a _choice_ or something... is there an Internet version of methadone that I could take to help me get away from this place?
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 7:45am.
Archived comment by Sarah:
Well, Pop-ups suck, and most people just click them off anyway, before they even load. It's a small price to pay to enjoy one of my favorite websites! I wouldn't be able to contribute through the pay pal thing, because 1) I don't have a checking account and 2) because I believe credit cards are the ultimate spawn of Satan.

Do what you need to do to keep your site running, and we will support whatever you need to do!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 7:25am.
Archived comment by Jon:
I'm ok with popups. Respawning ones are bad, but I just don't visit those sites again. I've actually visited one or two popups when they were actually *contextually related* to the site I was visiting... a movie's website popup from an entertainment page, for example.

I'll probably visit your site regardless of what advertising is there. If it's respawning popups, I'll just grit my teeth and rain curses on the ISP.

If you need to use an alternative like Paypal(which I have heard generally good things about), I would contribute. As long as you let people know it's *voluntary*, it should be OK. (Switching from all-free to all-paid is different if you do it without warning). Good luck!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 6:07am.
Archived comment by Milo:
Oooh, can't stand pop-ups. Really can't stand multiple pop-ups on a page. You go to the page and bam! bam! bam! suddenly, you've got six windows open, and you can't see the page you went to in the first place! Then again, I also hate things that buzz, bing, or beep unecessarily, so perhaps I'm just easily annoyed.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 5:48am.
Archived comment by Jane:
I don't like pop-ups, but I really hate respawning pop-ups. There are sites that I don't visit anymore just because of those. I do agree, however, that banners get more response than pop-ups. My eyes will eventually be drawn to a banner, but I NEVER read a pop-up. I have checked out banner sites before, but I look at pop-ups as someone who came to dinner but wasn't invited.

I also agree that I enjoy the site so much that I'll put up with pop-ups just to visit.

Sorry, I didn't mean to get so long winded :}
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 5:22am.
Archived comment by WendiWolf:
I'll put my $0.02 in as well.
Pop-ups are annoying, but they won't keep me from visiting this site, unless they are those stupid pain in the but respawning ones other people have mentioned. I ignore the banners for the most part and popups are easy to ignore too. Just so long as the site is here, I'll be here at least 2 or 3 times a day...
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 4:48am.
Archived comment by NinjaKitten:
...which could be a problem, given that the reason these things pop -is- to push...

This bodes ill for the stack.

Don't you love it when you get to say 'bodes ill'? :)

Seriously, I hate pop-ups, but I hate banners too, so hey! I'll suffer whichever you go with for the sake of the site.

$34 a month -does- seem a bit high, though. A less expensive provider might also be a thought!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 4:32am.
Archived comment by Wildfox:
"To pop or not to pop, that is the question."

Be careful though, most stacks would be unhappy if you tried to pop before you pushed...
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 3:39am.
Archived comment by David:
Feel free to pop-up as long as they can be quickly closed and don't re-spawn, as others have already noted.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 3:12am.
Archived comment by JP:
Go ahead with the popups. Bla-Bla are wrong, as it happens - responses to popups are generally lower than for banners simply because people close them down before they finish loading - but that's their problem, not yours.

Also, your hosting costs seem quite high - there are certainly companies who do it cheaper. How much do you transfer per month/how much storage space do you use? I pay �25 for 2 years hosting for my sites....
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 01/11/2001 - 2:49am.
Archived comment by nightfever:
So, um, do you get paid more if you have a pop-up ad? Or is it still the same $19? Just curious.

I am ok with pop-up ads as long as they aren't a respawning one!! I mean, I hate them, but it wouldn't tuen me off your site. I think that you have enough of a following that would get by the fact that there is a pop-up.
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