Archived comment by ParU:
Cool Cap'n brian (or is it Major by now? - S4 slot?).

Well not to reveal too much about my personal lineage (cause my daughter would kill me), but my ancestor was with the 6th Michigan Cavalry. I've been to Gettysburg and found the Cavalry battlefield - not much info there. I know that part of the command of those troops had a 21yr old Brigadier General (Custer!!!). I also know, (cause my father knew his Great-grandfather a little bit) that all the movies were wrong. He had a Red Kerchief (not Yellow like all the movies show) from Custer's unit. The story he told my dad was that Custer wanted to be different/flashier so he had his troopers wear Red. (I know that's an artillery color). Could be true, could be an inexact reminiscence from an old man. I wish I had that kerchief though!

Archived comment by brian28306:
I don't have any relics from the only Merriman that I am able to directly trace with Civil War service. However, I can tell you that Maj. Wheelock S. Merriman injured his back when he fell on a stump at Ft. Donelson. He however stayed with the 12th Illinois Infantry even as they marched through the Carolinas. That was after a little detour through Atlanta and Savannah.
Interesting cooincidence: Partial history of 12th Illinois.
March 6th, crossed Peedee river, passed Gum Swamp, Springfield, Laurel Hill, North Carolina, Lumber creek, Rock Fish creek, arriving at Fayetteville, North Carolina, March 12th, from Cheraw, 73 miles.
I live in Rockfish, named after the creek that runs nearby, and the Church I attend had many records destroyed by Sherman's troops. Possibly even troops that served under my ancestor.

Archived comment by Paul:
Yeah, but I've got a six foot Masai spear on my wall, right next to a Turkish mace.

And no, I'm not kidding. *gryn*

Archived comment by ParU:
brain28306 - Well it's a lot shinier than the one I've got, but the one in your namelink shore is purty. Mine (well my father's) was issued in 1861 to my great-great grandfather who used it for 4 years (including fighting with Custer at Gettysburg), so I think I'll keep it.

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
*Raises an eyebrow*

You wouldn't like me when I'm snarky, Mr.McGee.

*Grin*

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by brian28306:
While the quality is not what Joe might want, I'm quite satisfied with the one in the namelink (of course it is only ceremonial).

My favorite weapon though can be seen at http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/mk19.htm. Sit on a hill a mile away and rain carnage.

In a duel I would prefer the HK P7M8.
http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/military/mlepstl_p7_frameset.html

Archived comment by steff:
marinerd, if you insist on talking about restraining yourself, we'll have monk and tim over here before you can flip the saftey off... um... this can only end badly, huh?

found weapons are the best, of course, in most instances and for most people, negating the need to wear a trench coat 365 days a year. which is part of what makes knowing what the frell to do with sticks and long whippy objects so appealing. and i believe i've already related the "knife to a gunfight" experiment, so i'll refrain...

restrain? something. hehe.

Archived comment by ParU:
Thanks marinerd - I'll give you the pts anyway, cause Joe's being snarky *g*.]

And Oscar (a interpretation of the character's exclaimation of his name as "Oh, Scar") fought these sci-fi creatures with a sword (like the Lord of the Rings, sorta), married the beautiful girl and saved the Universe and then discovered it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Very good book.

It gets a four star rating at Amazon and you can buy a used copy for $0.99 (namelink). Recommended.

Archived comment by marinerd:
Oh, I guess Joe did, but he gave the answer without referring to the question, so I didn't realize.

I've gotten into the habit of double posting today. Sorry, I'll try to restrain myself (or get it right the first time)!

Archived comment by marinerd:
Since no one answered your question, ParU, I googled it, so don't deserve any points:

Oscar Gordon is the main character of Robert Heinlein's novel Glory Road.

Not particularly a Heinlein fan, so I'm not familiar with it.

Archived comment by ParU:
Well I'd give the Loonie pts to Joe if he wasn't being so snarky...

And steff I know who I'm talkin' to, I was just baiting y'all.

Archived comment by marinerd:
Of course, I meant that the spear thrower would be as good with his weapon as the swordsman was with his.

Archived comment by marinerd:
Swords are definitely cool. And I'm aware of the axiom that in a knife fight, one never throws his knife. But aren't most spears meant to be thrown? And I would assume the spear thrower would be as good at it as the swordsman.

I remember reading somewhere about soldiers somewhere (Japan?) who refused to fight with guns (or cannons?) because such a battle would have no honor. Sounds so Klingon, doesn't it? Anybody remember this? It must have been at least 100 years ago, or even longer. Sorry it's so vague, but it's amazing I remembered it at all.

Archived comment by Jon:
Those swords are beautiful, Joe...
*avoids drooling on the katanas*

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
Ack. Forgot a link...I was going to say that if money were no object, I'd have them make me something like this...or this...or maybe this.

-Jn-
Everyone's Favorite Vile Fiend

Archived comment by Paul:
I own a sword cane with a 22" blade. Very light and maneuverable, if rather short. Next project: make a couple of wooden mock-ups of it out of dowels and start fencing with someone so that I can get used to the shorter length.

PH34R MY L33T W34P0NRY!

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
ParU,

Point the first - I was really referring to something more like this. (My personal preferrance is, of course, the staff...but that's nice sword.)

Point the second - On the subject of modern weapons, a .40S&W beats a leetle whippy sword, any day. A Glock 23s safeties are deactivated by pulling the trigger. It's a close quarters combat weapon, not a target pistol.

Point the third - Glory Road.

I'll attempt to refrain from a long dissertation of the strengths and roles of various weapons...but it's hard. *Grin*

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by hypoxic:
the problem with launching the spear is that you don't have anything left if you miss.

Defending with a sword usually means that you move or attempt to bat the spear away. The second option doesn't work. Unless of course you are exceptionally quick and strong. And it you couldn't do it with a foil.

Silly ParU have you ever seen the nastyness a spear does to stuff?

Archived comment by steff:
"he's got a board with a nail in it!"
"RUN!"

Archived comment by marinerd:
Please forgive my complete ignorance on this subject, but in sword vs. spear, can't you throw the spear from a distance? How could the sword be used to defend against that?

You guys moved into pointy sword vs. slashing sword, and sword vs. stick (and pointy stick), but didn't really answer the sword vs. spear question.

I'm curious!

Archived comment by steff:
heh. one of my fondest memories is beating the SNOT out of a great big tough marine in a fencing class. good times.

*sits back and snickers at all the little irony dustdevils whirling around this conversation* for one, parU, i think you forgot who you were talking to. *grin*

Archived comment by ParU:
Not sure how it works, theoretically, but (and I know I'm repeating myself here daen) - I do have some Real Life experience. My fencing teacher was a little old (60ish) lady demonstrating it against a big, strong jock. He was whipping his foil back and forth and advancing against her. She let him do it for about 10 seconds then lunged forward and stabbed him right where his heart would be, while his sword was wayyyy off to the side. She then turned to us and said: "That's to show you that all the movies are wrong."

(I know it's a repeat, but I love that story, sorry).

Archived comment by hypoxic:
have you ever seen what someone armed with a quarterstaff can do to someone with a sword? Now just add a pointy bit to the end and you got your self a problem there.

Archived comment by Jon:
Depends on how you use the spear militarily... the assegai used by the Zulus acted like a sword with an extended haft.
Not that I'd actually know how to use it in practice.

I had heard somewhere that the effective speed of a stabbing sword was enough of an advantage, to compensate for the increased damage potential of a slashing sword.

Archived comment by ParU:
Sword vs spear??? I'll take the sword anyday.

And ye hanna guessed who Oscar Gordon was, either.

Archived comment by hypoxic:
course your little wimpy sword is no match for the nice long reach of a spear ;)

Archived comment by ParU:
Joe - well many people assume they know how to fence, cause they've seen The Mask of Zorro, but they don't. And the leetle whippy swords will stick you before you can figure out where the safety is, or my name's not Oscar Gordon (2 Loonie pts cause you'll never get that one).

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
"...and if you know what you're doing you can easily beat someone who's only seen it in movies."

As opposed to...? Which weapons wouldn't be that way?

"Damn! I know how to use this, and he doesn't! I'm totally screwed!"

(Leetle whippy swords. Fah! *Grin*)

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by ParU:
Yeah Saint, but I won't duel - I like you.

But if I did have to duel someone, I'd choose...

Foils (those skinny swords). -- I used to be pretty good with those, and if you know what you're doing you can easily beat someone who's only seen it in movies.

Archived comment by Saint:
Does the fight involve even numbers and similar weapons? If so, then I'll say I'd have a decent shot at winning. If the Unit gets back-up, or has a baseball bat or 2X4, then I'd say my chances are a little lower. This is why you always have to set seconds and decide on weapons before starting to bet on a duel.

Archived comment by daen:
Oops. There should have been a /b tag after "could."

Archived comment by daen:
Yes, Saint, we know you wouldn't, it's all theoretical-- but you could, couldn't you.

Archived comment by Saint:
Like I would beat up Eve's dad. Sheesh. What kind of fool do you take me for? Wait--don't answer that.

Archived comment by ParU:
You guys have no couth.

And Joe - I'd bet on her too, but them I'm a chicken - I was hiding behind you, remember?

Archived comment by Paul:
"Prevent inbreeding- ban country music!"

Especially by mullet wearing guys who look like they just fell off the old pickup truck coming from the construction site...

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
$15 on the pastry chef!

*Grin*

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Archived comment by ParU:
Saint - thems fightin words... *g*

Archived comment by Saint:
Besides, having exquisite taste and liking Alan Jackson are mutually exclusive things.

Archived comment by Cebu:
GOD no. I can't stand that stuff. It just snuck in my head over the years somehow. Probably has a little something to do with where I live.

Archived comment by ParU:
Cebu - cause you have exquiste taste and like Alan Jackson?

Archived comment by Cebu:
"Way down yonder on the Chattahoochee
It gets hotter than a hoochie coochie
We laid rubber on the Georgie asphalt
We got a little crazy but we never got caught"

Yeeeeeeehaw! Sorry, that song came into my head when I saw that Georgia map. How do I even know that song???

Archived comment by peegee:
"Make no mistake", eh ?

As long as we're rounding up quotes, how about the one about striking down on those who train and harbour terrorists ? Well, one of the places 'famous' for training terrorists active in Latin and South America is ... US Army School of Americas, Fort Benning, Georgia(see link).

Archived comment by Jon:
I do think that there are other things going on eroding our rights, but the legal actions of an employer are not one of them. We should be more worried about libraries being forced to divulge lender records for suspected terrorists, and as Joe has pointed out, creation of nebulous new 'Security' agencies with little oversight.

I don't suppose we're going to worry about the reporter at the New York Times who was eventually (after several months) fired, after he plagiarized stories and made hundreds of unchecked errors? Especially since that might cast questions about the inner workings of that respected newspaper.

Archived comment by brian28306:
Make no mistake, it was that quote, taken from a TV Guide interview that got him sacked.

This namelink is to an article that tears apart Gernon's version of history in the upcoming miniseries, but still stands by Gernon's right to speak freely. As this writer points out, they fired him for his comments, but left his modern twist on history in the film.

How many rights will we have to give up to make us "safe". At what point do we say enough is enough, and when we reach that point will it be too late? It is much easier to not give something up than it is to get it back.

Archived comment by Jon:
Should have been a "did not ingratiate" instead of "do not" in that last post. My mistake.

Archived comment by Jon:
I don't think it's a morally correct decision to fire someone on those grounds.
I'd like to make two points, though:
1) We don't know the history of the person fired. It is possible that there were other incidents which do not ingratiate the person with management.
2) The person has the opportunity to sue the employer for improper breach of contract, or whatever the appropriate legal term might be.

It may have been an unfair business practice, but it was not censorship. Censorship would have been preventing the person from airing those comments at all.

Archived comment by brian28306:
"It basically boils down to an entire nation gripped by fear, who ultimately chose to give up their civil rights and plunged the whole nation into war," Gernon said in the interview. "I can't think of a better time to examine this history than now."
Comment by ED Gernon,producer of CBS miniseries Hitler: The Rise of Evil.

He was fired for making this comment.

Archived comment by ParU:
You know Joe - you often make sense and have a good point. Nicely said.

Must be cause you've been driving and are tired...

Archived comment by Paul:
"I have met the enemy, and he is us!"

Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
*staggers back in under the weight of a huge duffle bag*

I'm...so sick...of driving.

Anyway.

Don't get me started on the so-called "Patriot Act" and the additions they're trying to push through. Don't get me started on the so-called "Homeland Security" people, when we already had the FBI, the CIA, and the NSA (but they're under Congressional oversight, with Homeland Security isn't). Don't get me started on the suppression of the rights of American citizens, the reinstatement of powers taken away from the FBI after Hoover abused the Hell out of them, or the fact that the media pretends that none of this is happening.

Yeah, we gotta defend ourselves from the bad guys...but there's some seriously creepy @#$% going on. Checks and balances are being trashed left and right, and as it stands right now the government can do whatever they like to whoever they like without recourse. No warrant, no charges, no lawyer, no nothing.

Maybe that makes some of you feel safer...but if you really trust anyone with that kind of power - let alone a freakin' politician - then you really need to take a closer look at some history books. The bad guys might use some of those cumbersome rules against us, but those rules are all that differentiated us from, say, the Soviet Union. You remember the Cold War, maybe? Evil Empire, and all that?

We're supposed to be the Good Guys.

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophst