13 April 2003
Submitted by eve on Mon, 04/14/2003 - 1:03am. Tragic
"I've applied to, like, a hundred jobs. I've written twenty cover letters, and I'm just recycling them at this point."
"Well, that's a career for you, in and of itself."
"Cover letter writing?"
"No. Recycling."
--A girl and a guy at Triple Rock.
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Posted by Anne Onymous on Mon, 04/28/2003 - 9:08am.
Archived comment by marinerd:
Namelink says it all.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Sat, 04/26/2003 - 11:47am.
Archived comment by Apple:
Metallica parody.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 10:18pm.
Archived comment by steff:
besides, the advent of cheap, personal cd burners has caused at least as much, if not more, of the problem the poor, destitute record industry is endlessly whining about as mp3 sharing has...
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 4:00pm.
Archived comment by marinerd:
I remember Janis Ian very well, and her article is right on. I've often wondered how the recording industry has managed to make so much money without understanding the concept of FREE ADVERTISING! That's what music sharing really is. Oh well.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 2:07pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
marinerd - go read the story on my link. It agrees quite well with your point from an industry 'veteran' (Janis Ian).
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 1:20pm.
Archived comment by Arlene:
I know that there are at least 3 bands I would never have heard of, much less bought their cd's if it weren't for music downloads.

Tom Smith has a great song "I want my Music on Napster". If I weren't have a lazy Friday (it's been an effort to do any work), I'd link to it.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 1:06pm.
Archived comment by marinerd:
I'm all for mp3 music sharing. My kids do it, and their friends, and I can see how it really works (not how the recording industry claims). Kids download music, then if they have the money, they usually prefer to buy the CD. If they don't have the money, they wouldn't have bought it anyway. But the artist benefits because they now have a new fan. Word of mouth about artists spreads like anything over the internet. Music sharing can give artists lots of new fans.

I also know that plenty of people download music that they already own! They do so to have music on their computer while they're working/surfing/playing, or on their mp3 player. They think it's easier than burning the songs they want off a CD, or they want a mix of different artists.

The record companies aren't losing money since this has been happening. Their profits are down about the same percentage as every other entertainment industries' are, due to the economy. Smart bands put out their own mp3s on their websites and invite their fans to download. The real money is in touring and merchandise, anyway.

It's the future, it's not a bad thing, and people should just get used to it!

/end rant
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 12:33pm.
Archived comment by Paul:
Tell me about it. Most of my classmates were born after I graduated from high school. Hell, I've got shoes that are older than some of them...
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 12:11pm.
Archived comment by tim:
Born in 75??
God....now I feel really old
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 12:08pm.
Archived comment by Cebu:
Heh. I was born in'75.

The most i've paid for a concert was $30-something. I think. Plus all the stupid Ticketmaster extras. Not too bad.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 11:16am.
Archived comment by tim:
I saw Aerosmith, Foghat, and Mahogany Rush at the old Boston Garden and I think it cost me 8.50.
1975 maybe?
Now if I go see anyone even in a " club" atmosphere you're talking atleast 150-200 dollars for the night.( parking, drinks, etc)
If you want to see a big name in a big place it's close to 100 bucks a seat.
I wouldn't pay that to see Jim Morrison risen from the dead.
( I might pay it to see Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters though...)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 10:43am.
Archived comment by ParU:
Interesting commentary on the 'music biz' at the namelink (you have to then click on Prime Palaver No. 11). Commentary is by Janis Ian, who had a few hits in the 70's. She puts it far better than I, but basically says that most acts make their money off of touring and CD sales at the concerts, not from CD sales in stores. So she feels that Internet music sharing is a good thing, as people will buy/hear music they like. Go look at the link, it's stated better.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Fri, 04/25/2003 - 9:15am.
Archived comment by marinerd:
slugbuggy, there are too many ways to sort that tour tally list! I was thinking the #1 act should be the one with the most number of tickets sold. But of course, some acts are on longer tours than others, and like you said, have more shows. But putting them in order by how much money they made seems somehow deceptive. It doesn't really show how popular each act is in relation to each other.

The ticket prices made me realize: I can't handle inflation. It's like, it's natural for the prices of food, gas, rent, etc. to go up, but it seems wrong when ticket prices do. Some of them are outrageous!

I saw the Beatles and the ticket cost $5.00.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 4:32pm.
Archived comment by slugbuggy:
Or maybe, kids mostly see lots and lots of smaller club and arena shows, and spread their money around that way, while adults primarily see a few select shows, and funnel their cash flow towards a handful of the remaining big names from their youth.

Plus, the high ticket prices for the bigger shows ($45, $60, etc.) means only a few tours aimed at a younger audience can consistently draw enough ticketbuyers to make expensive large-scale touring profitable.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 4:12pm.
Archived comment by slugbuggy:
Here's the tour tally for 2002. Neil Diamond, # 9, Blink 182 (w/Green Day), # 25.

Barry Manilow clocks in at # 21.

Lots of stuff to argue about. Highest # of attendees/show, multiple shows/city, total ticket sales, and so on.

Only five of the top 20 acts are from the current rock or pop era. Few of the highest grossing acts by cd sales are in the top grossing tours list, and conversely, few of the top-selling tour acts have had cds of original material rank high on the charts. Kids buy the cds, adults go see the shows.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 2:38pm.
Archived comment by Apple:
Never argue with Efreet should just be a general rule. Like land wars in Asia.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 1:36pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
Well I didn't say he was still hot, just that he was hot for a long time.

And I was talking about selling out concerts, not albums. Yeah, the Beatles and the Stones are all by themselves...

But note that I like all the music that you mentioned (including Garth B.). Goes and hides and vows never to argue music with an efreet
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 1:25pm.
Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
A bored sophist is a dangerous thing...

Okay, here's the Billboard Top 200 for 2002. (Actually, they only appear to give the first 100, but it's enough for our purposes).

You'll note the absence of Neil Diamond.

Neil Diamond's first album, The Feel of Neil Diamond, came out in August of 1966.

We'll get the two cited Big Dogs out of the way up front, just to be fair to ol' Diamond Neil:

The Beatles, who released their first single in '62 and had their last session in '70, still managed to nab the 94th slot of last year. They haven't released anything new since Let It Be in 1970, and they're still in the Top 100.

The Stones are at #79. Kinda impressive...I mean, have you seen these guys, lately? Long in the tooth...I'm not sure Keith Richards is still alive, but he's still rocking. Heh.

Okay, let's see who else is there of note...

Bruce Springsteen weighs in at #34 with The Rising. His first album, Greetings from Ashbury Park, NJ was released in 1973.

Elvis Presley is at #36, with Elv1s: 30 #1 Hits. Elvis' first album, Elvis, was released in 1956. He died in August of '77 (we were just leaving McDonald's, Happy Meals in tow, when we heard the news).

Pink Floyd, who's first album came out in August of 1967, hold's the #44 slot on the list, with Echoes - The Best of Pink Floyd.

U2 is at #68 with All That You Can't Leave Behind. Their first album was, I believe, Boy in 1980...so, yeah...over 20 years.

Madonna is at #58 with GHV2...her first album was in '83.

One step down, at #59, we have The Red Hot Chili Peppers with By The Way - their first album (The Red Hot Chili Peppers) released in 1984.

Heck, Barry Manilow (there you go, Cebu) is at #64.

Garth Brooks, Enya, (both in the Top 20) and Alanis Morrisette all made the list, and have been around about 15 years so so.

Anyway.

Nevermind these young whippersnappers...Heh.

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 1:07pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
Yeah I know Jon - it was a memory test for y'all.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 12:05pm.
Archived comment by Jon:
Heh. ParU, you already bragged about going to the same school as Wierd Al before. Not that there's anything bad about reminiscing, of course.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 10:50am.
Archived comment by Apple:
I want to let you all know that as you were discussing Barbies, I was too, just not here. My family thought it was totally odd for me to even mention Barbie, considering that I haven't for almost fourteen years. At least I know why I brought it up now, though.

*grin*
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 10:45am.
Archived comment by ParU:
And where umrguy, did Weird Al go to college? With who as his classmate? Hmmmmm????
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 10:11am.
Archived comment by umrguy:
Well, ParU, there's also another barometer for success (not necessarily being a megabighugesuperstar, but at least current success as a band du jour, anyway) - when you're parodied by Weird Al :D

And as far as Billy Joel and Elton John, that wasn't a rhetorical question down there, I was mainly just asking, since I don't keep tabs on that kinda stuff, but I figured they'd be pretty well up there.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 8:57am.
Archived comment by ParU:
Not to disagree with you Joe, but...

That was my point. Neil Diamond sold out 7 consecutiver nights in the same venue. (Woulda been more but he had shows in LA). I wasn't saying he was 'better' than others, just that some people (ummm that would be Eve and her brother), tend to diss him, yet he still sold out concerts for 20 years. Hell he'd probably still sell them out (besides Will Farrell parodied him on SNL, and you know you're big when that happens).
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 8:21am.
Archived comment by tim:
Are my eyes deceiving me or has no one mentioned Springsteen?
I personally don't care for him but, he sells out Boston area 5 times over every time he comes here.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 7:59am.
Archived comment by Jazz:
And, as a point of note Dave Matthews sold out Foxborough Stadium 3 times a couple of years ago, for a total of close to 120,000 tickets.

As did U2 and the Stones (who did like 5 sold out shows = 300,000) and the Dead when they came around. The Billy Joel / Elton John concert sould out 5 nights at Fleet for close to 100,000 tickets.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 7:53am.
Archived comment by Jazz:
I don't particularly feel like doing the research, but U2 has come in as one of the top grossing tours for several of the last 10 years, usually in second place behind McCartney or the Stones
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 5:21am.
Archived comment by Kris the Girl:
Mmm, Billy Joel. I love him.
Elton John, whatever. It's all about the Billy Joel songs. Hee.

After doing very little research on a speech I have to give in 45 minutes, I think Dave Matthews Band is going to be one of those "around forever and always just great in every way" bands. At least to me. And millions of other adoring fans. Heh.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Thu, 04/24/2003 - 12:28am.
Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
The comparison is flawed.

They'd never be doing a seven-night gig in the same venue, to begin with. *Grin* You'd have to compare across multiple concerts, and suspect the answer would be a resounding "Yes".

Besides, most performers aren't really interested in HUGE audiences. Who wants to pay to go see someone live only to need binocs to see them performing on the big screen TV over the stage?

I mean, yeah...Neil Diamond. But there's much bigger fish. Seriously.

If you want concert attendance, how about the Grateful Dead?

The Grateful Dead played the Sam Boyd Stadium for five consecutive years from 1991 to 1995, all of which have set records for the top grossing and highest attended shows. The bands final performance in Las Vegas (1995) holds the #1 position, with 125,533 fans attending the concert which grossed over $3.7 million.

Anyway - here's a TRULY depressing factoid, from Guinness BoWR:
Most Tour Tickets Sold In A Day
A total of one million tickets, valued at US$40 million (�25,078,370), were sold on the first day (March 25, 2000) for *NSync's No Strings Attached 2000 US tour, selling out 51 of their 52 dates.


Of course, in 20 years, NSync won't even be a joke anymore, let alone setting ticket records - so maybe there is some justice in the Universe.

The largest single artist concert is, of course (as stated by PU), Paul McCartney at something like 180,000 I believe...and heck, Rod Stewart, of all people played for 3.5 million people in Rio on New Year's in '94.

Does this tie into the other thread? Cause I think this just goes to show that 3.5M people can be wrong...

*Grin*

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 11:12pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
OK umrguy - but can Billy Joel/Elton John sell out 7 nights of a 50,000 seat venue? I mean the note from our Pyro guy talks about 70,000 seats in 2 hours. Try 350,000 seats. I mean Simon and Garfunkel had about 500,000 people in Central Park, but that was free.

And yes I went to the concert, which is why I remember it.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 10:22pm.
Archived comment by umrguy:
ParU, what about Billy Joel/Elton John? (Together or separate?)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 9:11pm.
Archived comment by Matt:
I've got The Essential Neil Diamond (37 songs, two discs) on CD. I'm not ashamed. After I got it for Christmas last year, my mom asked me for a copy.

Little known fact: The Jazz Singer was not the first film with sound. It was the first film to use sound and dialoge extensively, but according to my Film 101 prof... um... five years ago, it was some other, almost-unknown film. Pardon me for not researching it.

No points for you!
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 9:09pm.
Archived comment by Cebu:
Boy howdy, if Barry Manilow ever came back to Savannah, you can bet yer britches that I'd be getting tickets the first day. I love him.

I don't mind Neil Diamond.

(i'm not a troll)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 8:46pm.
Archived comment by Joe Napalm:
Here's a Denver Post article that both supports ParU's position that large concerts aren't doing so well, lately (yeah, well...in the '80s we were worried about ICBMs, not guys with bombs strapped to their chests) and makes some interesting connections - both for Neil Diamond and against Par's tossed gauntlet.

Comments of note:
There was a glimmer of hope from young bands. The Blink-182/Green Day joint tour in early summer was a big draw, the largest crowd in Fiddler's history.

...

"I'm looking at a long (bleeping) winter. I don't care if it snows 400 inches, because I've got nothing worth leaving the house for, except a nice New Year's Eve show (Neil Diamond at Pepsi Center, going on sale Monday)...

...Pink Floyd might save us. the last time they came (in 1994), they did 70,000 tickets in two hours. Metallica is still the biggest hard rock band. If they came back, it would be good."


In any case, I'd check under your bed and think twice about starting your car for getting Neil Diamond's America stuck in my head. Grrr...

-Jn-
Efreeti Sophist

Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 8:15pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
Thank you umrguy - you get the point. And just to annoy you young whipersnappers who think your latest little band are 'superstars' - in the 80's - 20 years after his first hit, Neil Diamond sold out 7 consecutive nights at the Oakland Collesium (50,000+ seats). (They kept adding shows past the original 2 and they kept selling out within 2 hours). Think your Blink 182 could do that? Huh, Huh??? Hell, I doubt there's an act out there currently that could sell that many tickets, in one venue, 'cept maybe the Stones or McCartney.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 5:51pm.
Archived comment by Cebu:
See, now, I'm much more familiar with Neil Diamond. I think my mom has that sountrack on LP. I'm not terribly interested in movies around the silent and just-after-silent era. And that's ... okay.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 5:46pm.
Archived comment by umrguy:
Well, the Passerby wasn't me, but you were speaking of Neil Diamond, perhaps?
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 4:56pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
Ye dinna get the points if ye dinna identify yourself.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 3:09pm.
Archived comment by Passerby:
Sweeeeeeet Ca-ro-line...
Ba-Bah-Dum...

(not from the movie, bit cool, especially if you speed up the tempo and play it with power chords in fast eights)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 2:39pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
And yet another cool pt to marinerd, and one to daen, too!

So who made a fairly good remake of that movie (Hint: A famous singer that my kids are ashamed that I like)?

Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 2:31pm.
Archived comment by daen:
First words spoken in a movie-- the beginning of the "talkies"-- in The Jazz Singer.

I couldn't tell you any plot details, though.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 2:30pm.
Archived comment by marinerd:
ParU, that seems way too easy to me. But I guess when you know something, you figure every one else does, as well.

Hint: 1927
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 1:33pm.
Archived comment by ParU:
Aw Igirly and Cebu -- you've got a lot to learn. I'll give the cool pts(one each) to timbo and my favorite Mariners fan.

But why did he say it?

('nother cool pt).
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 9:24am.
Archived comment by Jon:
True... but some of Mark Twain's work isn't, either. I don't think we should ignore material, just because it can corrupt young minds hahahahahhaha!. Sorry, channeling Ming the Merciless again.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 8:10am.
Archived comment by marinerd:
I guess nobody wants to claim the Al Jolson points. He's not exactly PC anymore, though, is he?
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 6:33am.
Archived comment by daen:
They're only lightly stunned!

(Correct me if I've got that wrong, Paul, Cebu, anyone...)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Wed, 04/23/2003 - 6:01am.
Archived comment by Cebu:
See, a red Pontiac is no fun, cause anyone can get one of those. But a pink car, that's different. And fits them better.

Mary Kay makes me think of Bloom County. (plus my neighbor sells it)
Posted by Anne Onymous on Tue, 04/22/2003 - 9:02pm.
Archived comment by Mia:
Speaking of Mary Kay, I have actually ordered something through one of their reps. Indirectly. She was the great-aunt of a first-floor resident. Anyway, I highly recommend Kisses By Candlelight if you are enamored with scented body washes (to be used with loofahs or washcloths�whatever makes you happy).
Posted by Anne Onymous on Tue, 04/22/2003 - 3:47pm.
Archived comment by Saint:
Not that anyone cares, but...Mary Kay now gives away red Pontiacs, rather than pink caddies. When I went for my eye surgery, we stayed at the same hotel as the Mary Kay convention, and the whole parking lot was a sea of red.
Posted by Anne Onymous on Tue, 04/22/2003 - 11:58am.
Archived comment by Jazz:
huh? someone call?
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