Yeah, that's what's missing from most discussions on irony: the notion that Fate itself is orchestrating events in spite of our wishes or expectations in a very pointed and umambiguous manner, and in a way in which the outcome neatly reflects back upon the original situation or expectation that we had. I think the manner in which our plans are confounded is important, not just the fact that it happens at all.
For example, if I'm all set to go off to clown college and fulfill my lifelong dream, but the college closes down right before classes are to start, so I become a porn star instead- it seems like fate is interfering with my plans, but it doesn't feel ironic, in that the outcome doesn't relect back on my intentions in a way that has some sense of aesthetic correctness or fit.
Now, if my plans to attend clown college are foiled by fate, and I wind up doing pornos, but by chance my first role is in clown porn, and I eventually end up a world-famous star of clown porn, that's ironic, I think.
Anyway, as Joe pointed out, and which led me to this page, which reiterates his point about Alanis' song actually being correct in its assumptions, there's a class of situational (as opposed to verbal, Socratic, or dramatics ironies) irony referred to as irony of Fate, or cosmic irony, which is what we've been talking about here.
However, there's another type of situational irony which doesn't seem to be a product of fate, but of one's own human folly or tragic flaw, as previously stated. For example, the original "professor" quote (Is it ironic that the quote which fostered a discussion on irony is under the "Um" heading and not "Ironic"? I don't know.), which I thought was ironic for the following reasons:
The professor thinks it's incongruous that she can be so scatterbrained and yet be employed in a profession that's of an intellectual nature.
Her logic overlooks the fact that an "absentminded professor" is a predominant stereotype, and that she's the very embodiment of the achetype.
It's because she's so scatterbrained that she doesn't think of this.
There's no Fate involved in this situation, it's purely a product of her own flaws, yet it has the same feel of reflexivity or mirroring to it which gives it an ironic feel. The reality of the situation fits back into her subjective perception of the situation in a way that contradicts or perverts it, but is somehow pleasingly aesthetic in its perversity.
My main point is that I think irony is something that's more sensed or intuited than it is perceived intellectually or analysed clinically. That's why most of the sources on the web I looked up are rife with examples of what the writers think are or aren't examples of irony, but there aren't any generic definitions which can neatly explain exactly what irony is, and apply to all cases.
I think this explanation is close, assuming I understand what it actually means:
Irony exists in the tension between vehicle and tenor, a message detached from its overt signifier.
For example, if I'm all set to go off to clown college and fulfill my lifelong dream, but the college closes down right before classes are to start, so I become a porn star instead- it seems like fate is interfering with my plans, but it doesn't feel ironic, in that the outcome doesn't relect back on my intentions in a way that has some sense of aesthetic correctness or fit.
Now, if my plans to attend clown college are foiled by fate, and I wind up doing pornos, but by chance my first role is in clown porn, and I eventually end up a world-famous star of clown porn, that's ironic, I think.
Anyway, as Joe pointed out, and which led me to this page, which reiterates his point about Alanis' song actually being correct in its assumptions, there's a class of situational (as opposed to verbal, Socratic, or dramatics ironies) irony referred to as irony of Fate, or cosmic irony, which is what we've been talking about here.
However, there's another type of situational irony which doesn't seem to be a product of fate, but of one's own human folly or tragic flaw, as previously stated. For example, the original "professor" quote (Is it ironic that the quote which fostered a discussion on irony is under the "Um" heading and not "Ironic"? I don't know.), which I thought was ironic for the following reasons:
- The professor thinks it's incongruous that she can be so scatterbrained and yet be employed in a profession that's of an intellectual nature.
- Her logic overlooks the fact that an "absentminded professor" is a predominant stereotype, and that she's the very embodiment of the achetype.
- It's because she's so scatterbrained that she doesn't think of this.
There's no Fate involved in this situation, it's purely a product of her own flaws, yet it has the same feel of reflexivity or mirroring to it which gives it an ironic feel. The reality of the situation fits back into her subjective perception of the situation in a way that contradicts or perverts it, but is somehow pleasingly aesthetic in its perversity.My main point is that I think irony is something that's more sensed or intuited than it is perceived intellectually or analysed clinically. That's why most of the sources on the web I looked up are rife with examples of what the writers think are or aren't examples of irony, but there aren't any generic definitions which can neatly explain exactly what irony is, and apply to all cases.
I think this explanation is close, assuming I understand what it actually means:
Irony exists in the tension between vehicle and tenor, a message detached from its overt signifier.